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One of my clients had aches for 3 days after the treatment.
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Karin Secrest
Eugene, Oregon
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September 7, 2018 - 6:31 am
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This topic is interesting. I wonder what could have caused the ache. I am not particularly unaware and rough on people. My client had lymphatic cancer and recovered well. It's a couple of years ago when she had her last mixed treatments in regards to this. She appeared healthier than before. She is a Qi Gong teacher and an acupuncturist.  One of her leg is 2 inches shorter than the other due to a car accident long ago and her shoes are specially made for her.

I noticed that another firend, a 1 year recovered cancer patient, had aches 2 days of aching after a Thai treatment as well... 

Now, given that after a very difficult operations the lymph tends to be actually very stagnant and it takes a while till a person can exercise again. With her gentle Qi Gong things move gently though faster but muscle toning still maybe taking more time. Also, both are older women and as such they maybe out of shape, some muscle atrophy surely is common if none of them practices cardio vascular, or strength exercises ever. 

I wonder what besides my own lack of insight and wisdom (I may have done a mistake I am not aware off - both liked the treatment at the time) could have happened?

Perhaps they did not drink enough water.

I have never seen these 2 people exercising instensively since a long time ago, like running... in fact, one lady has an aversion against any movement whatsoever and as such her system appears dense.

This development puzzled me. I know I am not a rough person. I also check in with the end-feel. The person with the leg difference might have multiple skeletal issues at the hip and at the entire skeleton, which can be very complex. She complained some time ago of pain when she was not wearing her special orthopedic shoes for long. Her ankle is always swollen, so lymph is stagnant there too. She might have a lot of pain in general as the foot appeared permanently fused to the tibialis or some part of the bone is missing. Perhaps stretching was too much in general and just some palming and elephant walk would have done. It is so easy to make a mistake. 

I was so sorry about the result of my treatment session and understand that mistakes are there to be learned from. I wonder if I was missing something. If there is anything which comes to mind Shama, let me know.

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Shama Kern
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September 7, 2018 - 10:09 am
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Well. without having been there to observe you and the client, it is not possible to offer anything specific. However I can come up with general ideas. Some people for whatever reasons are very locked up due to trauma, disease, lack of exercise, lifestyle habits, etc. In some of these cases I don't do much stretching at all. Instead I try to get their energy moving by using gentle rocking techniques. I might not do any linear stretches at all, and only use the rocking versions.

I also have had clients who experienced pain in Thai Massage, no matter what I did. That was when I mainly used the traditional method a long time ago. This is actually the reason why I developed the rocking system since this is what enabled me to work in a gentler and more flowing way.

Another approach which has always worked very well for me is this. If I have clients who are super sensitive and can't seem to handle the Thai stretches, I switch to working mostly on their extremities, like foot massage, hand massage, and the Heavenly Head Massage. These are very pleasurable experiences for the client. They don't involve much stretching and are generally less intense and pain-free even for highly sensitive people.

So - switching to mostly rocking for full body techniques, and gentle techniques like elephant walking, and spending more time on the extremities is my recipe for such cases.

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Karin Secrest
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September 7, 2018 - 11:00 am
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I just talked to one of them again. She said that she could not stay very long in one pose (wish she would have said this during the session). Well, that is a reasonable way to easy change. Some people need to change the position more often than others especially those with lower back pain or nerve pains. 

Working at the extremities sounds pretty plausible too.

Thank you Shama. Luckily I signed of for the Rocking Thai today..

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Shama Kern
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September 7, 2018 - 11:50 am
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This is a good thing to be aware of, but still, 3 days of discomfort or pain is a pretty extreme reaction to just lying in one position for a while... just saying.

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Karin Secrest
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September 7, 2018 - 1:01 pm
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right... I thought so too... 

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LizBabcock
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January 13, 2019 - 11:49 pm
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HI Karin,

I would add that it is very difficult for people to speak up and advocate or ask for what they need let alone say something that your doing hurts. I will often tell my clients on the first visit that I am going to explore around and if at any time they notice some discomfort they can tell me and that will inform my next move. I often work in side-lying position and i will say, "when I move you into a position feel free to adjust your body in anyway you need to feel comfortable, if you can't get comfortable we'll make adjustments so that you are". They then feel like there is room to speak, they are encouraged to speak and also that it is normal to make adjustments. Of course this still might not say anything and you may find out later which is no fault of your own, but of their restriction to speak up. We can use loving kindness here to say " I understand, lets find  positions that are more comfortable for you." There is always deeper things going on in a session than the reactions you are hearing or not hearing!

Having pain after a session like Shama says, can indicate lots of things and it can be normal too. If it is after a first session, my client and I will de brief about the pain, like what did it feel like, where was it at, how long did it last. I have many clients with Autoimmune issues and they all react differently, so we learn from the first session what works for the person and what may not early on in their treatments, after working with them for a while this might change and we can work deeper. I have a form that they fill out that explains that there is sometimes muscle soreness for a couple of days after a session this is normal protocal for massage in North America. Hope this helps!

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Shama Kern
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January 14, 2019 - 7:22 pm
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You have a good system for interacting with clients, it seems, Liz.

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Karin Secrest
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January 28, 2019 - 7:44 am
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Thank you so much for your sharing your insight into pain LizBabcock. I appreciate your way of sharing how you go about a particular pain issue a lot. Pain is just a very complex issue, especially auto-immune related issues require so much knowledge and intuition. I sure would love to work with somebody like you when I am in pain. Not many people understand auto-immune related pain-management. 

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