Thai Healing Massage Academy | Thai Massage Online Courses

thai massage back stretch

Learn Thai Massage

ONLINE

Convenient - Effective

Professional Training since 2001

Thai Healing Massage Academy logo
Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Juri's Practice Diary - Back Massage
Avatar
jurasan
Tallinn, Estonia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 82
Member Since:
April 10, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
21
October 17, 2013 - 3:09 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Lesson 11.

Working with forearms and fists on erector muscles.

Question about the position with the client's arm on my thigh. Do I have to be close enough to have shoulder joint supported or father away, so that joint is hanging?

 

Avatar
Shama Kern
Thailand
Admin
Forum Posts: 10211
Member Since:
June 28, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
22
October 17, 2013 - 10:18 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

The shoulder joint should be supported since you mostly work on the back anyway. If you don't support it and lean into the joint, it can be a much stronger stretch. Also lying with an unsupported shoulder joint during the whole time you are working on the back in this position does not feel very comfortable.

Avatar
jurasan
Tallinn, Estonia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 82
Member Since:
April 10, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
23
November 30, 2013 - 2:10 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Lesson 12.

Knee work on lower back. I tried it on a small person. I was gentle, but the problem was that there was not enough space between hip and ribs to put my knee. But I guess it wasn't suitable anyway.

 

Avatar
Shama Kern
Thailand
Admin
Forum Posts: 10211
Member Since:
June 28, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
24
November 30, 2013 - 6:34 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Quite true. Large body + big knees on small back = bad combination. Smile

Avatar
jurasan
Tallinn, Estonia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 82
Member Since:
April 10, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
25
December 14, 2013 - 8:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Lesson 13.

As soon as learned how to properly support client in side position it became my favorite. That's where shoulders and lumbar muscles are relaxed the most.

When you press with the knee, do you press only exactly on erector muscles or higher up too?

Avatar
Shama Kern
Thailand
Admin
Forum Posts: 10211
Member Since:
June 28, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
26
December 14, 2013 - 11:02 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

The knee is such a large surface that you won't be able to just lean on the erectors. You will catch other back muscles by default as well.

Avatar
jurasan
Tallinn, Estonia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 82
Member Since:
April 10, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
27
January 17, 2014 - 1:58 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Lesson 14.

Hi, Shama.

Could you please go a liitle more into details about the purpose of working under scapula. I met a lot of people with trigger points on romboids and around. and at the same time most of them had kyphotic posture and would benefit more of chest stretch and back muscle strengthening. 

So I understand the need to work on painful spots and relax muscles, but was is the intent of trying to pull scapula father from ribcage? A lot of people who'd allow to stick fingers deep under their scapula actually have scapula winging. And people who have scapulas tightly on the rib cage often have pretty good posture, at least when it goes to thoracic extension. 

It feels very good for me. I'm one of those that allow to dig deep under scapula and I have slight winging also. But I don't know if it's resourceful long term. 

 

Avatar
Shama Kern
Thailand
Admin
Forum Posts: 10211
Member Since:
June 28, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
28
January 17, 2014 - 11:21 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

Several reasons:

1. In the Thai Massage system there is an energy line which sometimes moves to the edge or under the scapula. Lifting the scapula gives you better access.

2. For some techniques lifting the scapula gives you much better leverage. For example there are a couple of stretches in the side position where you lift the scapula to move the shoulder around.

3. There are different body types. Some people have a naturally loose scapula, and some people have a tight one. The purpose is not to separate the scapula from the back on every client, but to determine in which case a tight scapula goes along with upper back and shoulder problems. Those are the ones where you want to work on the scapula. 

4. For many people lifting and losening the scapula feels really good. Feeling good is a good enough reason for a technique in any massage system. Not every move has to have a specific therapeutic purpose. Like with all techniques, you are not following a mechanical sequence, but you build up a repertoire of techniques to choose from, and the art is to learn and intuitively know what works on whom. 

So there is no point in pulling scapulas on everyone indiscriminantly. However for some people and for some conditions it is a very useful technique. There is no specific rule which states on whom to use it. But with experience a therapist will feel when it makes sense to apply such a technique.

It is also one of those moves where I like to ask the client if it feels "good, bad, or neutral". Many times the client's answer to this question tells me if I am on the right track. I don't work so much based on some scientific reasoning, but rather what my intuition, my sense of touch, the client's feedback and reaction tell me.

After all, if you want to apply strictly anatomical reason to Thai Massage, the whole thing doesn't make much sense since its very basis is to work on energy flow in the body which is not recognized by the western model.

Interestingly enough, another student just posted her experience with scapula work. This is what she had to say:

"I did have to work with a partner whose shoulder blades were not stuck!  Working on the scapula is always a very beneficial to the client.  I work on so many people who carry all their stress on their shoulders and that tension just seems to trickle down and settle right in between the shoulder blades.  I did try the scapula techniques on my regular partner just to help her shoulders, and so I could see what the techniques feel like on a person with stuck scapulas.  I followed the advice given in the video, and kept my partner comfortable, and only did what her shoulders where capable of doing.  I did not force my fingers under her scapula, but just did what I could.  By the end of that practice session, my partner did comment how relaxing it felt just to have her shoulders manipulated that way."

Avatar
jurasan
Tallinn, Estonia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 82
Member Since:
April 10, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
29
January 25, 2014 - 4:03 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Thank you Shama for such an elaborate answer. Could you please describe a little bit more energy lines going under scapula. I mostly find pictures of those lines, but they not quite exact and hard to understand in 3D. 

Do you do energy line work the way it is tought in most Tha massage schools at all?

Avatar
Shama Kern
Thailand
Admin
Forum Posts: 10211
Member Since:
June 28, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
30
January 25, 2014 - 3:27 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory

Well, that's the thing about those energy lines. They are not exactly in one spot on everyone  in the same way. They can move, and that's why it is not a mechanical thing at all to work with them. It is something that you learn to feel intuitively. In some schools they paint the lines on one of the students to show their location. But those locations are only approximations, and not all the schools agree on them anyway.

The one  big issue I have with the typical Thai Massage energy line work is that it is really hard on the thumbs, especially when you are a small therapist with small hands. That might not be an issue for you since you are a big guy, but is it an issue for lots of therapists.

You might want to read an article which I wrote about his whole energy line subject. This will really clarify it for you:

Thai Massage And Traditional Sen Lines

Avatar
jurasan
Tallinn, Estonia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 82
Member Since:
April 10, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
31
January 26, 2014 - 1:59 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Lesson 15. 

Back and hip extension stretches.

That's very useful you showed different variations of the cobra. As I have long limbs and short torso I tend to tense a lot in my lower back when smbd does the strong variation on me. It really not that easy to bring the accent more to the mid-upper back.

Avatar
jurasan
Tallinn, Estonia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 82
Member Since:
April 10, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
32
January 27, 2014 - 12:38 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Lesson 16. 

On this I have question about forward bends. Do you do them if a person cannot sit upright at all? Are you trying to let them bend knees slightly or just skip those bends?

Avatar
Shama Kern
Thailand
Admin
Forum Posts: 10211
Member Since:
June 28, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
33
January 27, 2014 - 1:05 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

If someone cannot bend forward hardly at all, or cannot sit upright at all, then doing forward bends in the sitting position is not a good strategy. It will only feel stressful and painful for the client.

If people cannot bend forward, then they generally have very tight hamstrings. A much better strategy for such clients is to do a lot of work on the hamstring directly without any stretching initially. You can add the stretching when the hamstring muscles are really warm and well worked. However if the client cannot sit upright at all, I would do the hamstring stretches in the supine position. 

If people have a really hard time sitting, then I don't use this position at all in my session generally. No point in making clients uncomfortable.

Avatar
jurasan
Tallinn, Estonia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 82
Member Since:
April 10, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
34
March 11, 2014 - 12:58 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Lesson 17.

Many clients feel breathing is harder when I'm doing spinal twists. Do you also tell to breath out when you do them?

Avatar
jurasan
Tallinn, Estonia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 82
Member Since:
April 10, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
35
March 11, 2014 - 1:28 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Lesson 18.

Due to your lessons I became a bit lazy and almost ditched spinal twists in sitting position. I prefer to do them all supine:) Fortunately my size allows me to do it almost on any client.

Avatar
Shama Kern
Thailand
Admin
Forum Posts: 10211
Member Since:
June 28, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
36
March 11, 2014 - 1:45 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print

I never tell clients to breathe in a particular way when I am doing spinal twists, and I have never heard a comment from anyone that it makes breathing harder for them. But then again I don't hold spinal twists. I generally rock into them and do them in a real fluid way while moving continuously. I think that would take care of any breathing issues.

I also do spinal twists mostly in the supine position. I really don't use the sitting position that much. I only use it when I want to do very specific therapeutic moves. But when I have the choice, I'd prefer to do a particular move in the supine position since this is just much more comfortable for the client.

Avatar
jurasan
Tallinn, Estonia
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 82
Member Since:
April 10, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
37
March 13, 2014 - 2:28 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

Lesson 19.

With the last tractioning move one client complained that the pressure is too sharp. I moved my toes a little to the sides to fix it. Do you try to hold your toes close to the spine? Or does it really matter?

Avatar
Shama Kern
Thailand
Admin
Forum Posts: 10211
Member Since:
June 28, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
38
March 13, 2014 - 9:24 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print

The client's sacrum should rest on the balls of your feet. Your heels need to be pushed forward all the way so that the toes do not poke the back. The client should not feel your toes. They get bent down if your position is right. So your foot needs to be flexed in the ankle joint as much as possible. That reduces any toe pressure. In other words, your foot needs to be at a 90 degree angle to the floor. In this position there is no toe pressure on the client's back as long as the client's sacrum sits on the balls of your feet. Make sure to keep your toes completely relaxed and don't push with them. The pushing comes from the balls of your feet, not your toes.

Forum Timezone: Asia/Tbilisi
Most Users Ever Online: 254
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 10
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
mwisdom: 186
DKThai: 174
Merri Lou Dobler: 169
Karin Secrest: 164
Ernesta Andriunaite: 116
Dean Samuels: 109
Newest Members:
Silvie Hrbková
sanduflorin2103@gmail.com
cstorey
Denise Paxton
DonnaMeech
fbksfire1008
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 5
Topics: 1547
Posts: 24920

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 6
Members: 1200
Moderators: 0
Admins: 1
Administrators: Shama Kern